requests For Bureaucratship/Nihonjoe 3

The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a request for bureaucratship that did not succeed. Please do not modify it.

Nihonjoe

Nomination

Nihonjoe (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) – I've been an active editor of Wikipedia since September 2005. Since May 2006, I've been an active admin here and participated in a wide range of admin activities (Xfd, CSD, DRV, the occasional AIV, etc.), as well as participating in various policy and guideline discussions which caught my eye, and participating in RfA and RfB discussions (though more often than not, I don't always weigh in on all discussions even though I do follow them quite regularly). I also follow the discussions on WT:RFA regularly even though I only rarely offer an opinion there. I have also helped with OTRS issues, regularly answering questions sent in via email, as well as beginning to help with permissions messages (I wanted to make sure I knew what the process was before handling any of them).

I've made edits on too many language Wikipedias to count (I have accounts on over 200 of them), and I'm in the middle of a major contribution to expanding Japanese coverage on Wikisource (it's a lot of work transcribing a book!). I've also made a decent number of contributions to Commons, including moving many properly licensed images from the Japanese and English Wikipedias to Commons so they can be used by all WMF projects with access to Commons.

I was last here at RfB over two years ago. During that time, I have greatly expanded my knowledge of policies and guidelines, and helped (as noted above) in discussing potential and actual changes to them. I have a solid understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines, and a solid understanding of what it takes to be a good admin. I believe I would be a solid bureaucrat as well, and humbly offer my services as such. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 22:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as a bureaucrat. You may wish to answer the following optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. Have you read the discussions on when to promote and not promote? What do you understand the criteria for promotion to be?

A. The criteria to promote are for the bureaucrat to review all the comments and information within each discussion and then determine the consensus based on that discussion. While the general consensus is that candidates with 80% or more support will generally pass an RfA, this is not always the case. It's very important to make sure the discussion is thoroughly reviewed in order to determine the consensus and weigh all the arguments given in the discussion.

2. How would you deal with contentious nominations where a decision to promote or not promote might be criticized?

A. In such situations, it's important to review the discussion even more closely in order to make sure to gain a solid understanding of the consensus of those participating. In highly contentious nominations, this can sometimes be difficult and take some time, but it's important to make sure all arguments and concerns are understood so that correct determination of consensus can be made. Along the way, it is important to make sure any decision is backed by solid information about why the decision was made so that any questions regarding the final outcome can be properly and thoroughly addressed. When people raise specific issues regarding a particular outcome, it's important to treat their concerns with respect and answer them in a direct manner, without any sidestepping of the issues.

3. Wikipedians expect bureaucrats to adhere to high standards of fairness, knowledge of policy and the ability to engage others in the community. Why do you feel you meet those standards?

A. As stated above, I have several years of experience applying those policies and guidelines, and I think I have applied them with fairness during that time. I have participated in numerous talk page discussions across all namespaces (some more than others), and I try to work toward amicable and reasonable outcomes. While I certainly don't agree on everything with everyone I've worked with (I would be concerned if I did), I try to work through any disagreements and come to some sort of conclusion which is acceptable to everyone involved. This requires give-and-take on the part of everyone involved, but I don't think that's a bad thing. I am certainly not perfect, but I apologize when I'm clearly wrong and I try to be friendly and work with others in a generally positive way. We're all here to build an encyclopedia, and that's my main goal here: to help make Wikipedia the largest and best encyclopedia on the planet.

4. If you become a bureaucrat, will you pledge not to discuss promotion or non-promotion of potential admins on any other forum during the course of nominations and especially when making a decision? And to discuss issues of promotion or non-promotion only with other bureaucrats, in their talk, or at the Bureaucrats' noticeboard where such discussion would be transparent?

A. Yes to the first, and yes to the second unless the issue being discussed would unnecessarily invade the privacy of the individual concerned. These cases would likely be extremely rare, though.

5. Do you have the time and do you have the desire to visit WP:RFA, WP:B/RFA, and/or WP:CHU on a regular basis to attend to those requests?

A. Yes, and I regularly visit all of them. As stated above, I tend to lurk more than participate in the discussions on the associated talk pages unless I have strong opinions one way or the other. I think, for a bureaucrat, it's more important to closely observe such discussions than it is to constantly participate in them (though I have no problem with those who do constantly participate).

6. Do you pledge never to promote a person with whom you are affiliated?

A. Yes, as that would be a conflict of interest.

Optional question from Dank

7. You mentioned "candidates with 80% or more support will generally pass an RfA, this is not always the case." Are there any RFAs that got 80% or more where you would have recommended "no consensus"?

A: I don't know that I have any specific discussion in mind. The "80%" is just a general observation which is generally true.

Optional question from Aitias

8. Please explain how you would have closed the following discussions:

A: Well, seeing as I !voted in some of them, I'll have to defer to the decision made by the closing 'crat on these as my opinion is very clearly in the discussion itself: FlyingToaster 2, Ryulong, Everyking 5.

For the Orlady discussion, I think this was very close, and I think the closure could have gone either way and been valid. I probably would have closed it as no consensus, but I respect Anonymous Dissident's closure as valid.

For the Smith609 discussion, this one (again) was very close and the closure could have gone either way. In this case, I would have closed it as successful for the reasons expressed by bibliomaniac15.

For the Rootology discussion, this one (again—you seem to have picked a lot of them like this) was very close. In this case, it was closed with reasoning that we need to forgive editors who have shown they are turning over a new leaf. While I agree with this idea, I also find many of the comments voicing concern over how soon it was after he was unbanned to be compelling and I likely would have closed it as unsuccessful due to how close it was, how serious the raised concerns were, and how recently he was unbanned.

For lustiger seth, this one is difficult. He basically needed the tools for development-type reasons (working with the WP:SBL), If it weren't for the admin status on dewiki and meta, I would have closed it as unsuccessful without any question at all. However, as he has been working on the same issue on other wikis, and has been trusted with the admin bit on both meta and dewiki, I agree with the reasoning given by Deskana in closing the discussion as successful.

I agree with the closing comments from WJBscribe on the Cirt discussion, and I would have closed the discussion in the same manner.

I would have closed the Zedla discussion as no concensus, and I'm concerned at the lack of any closing comments at all on this discussion. Due to the extremely low participation in the discussion (55 total participants who expressed opinions), I don't think there were enough people expressing support for the nomination to make a valid successful closure decision.

The Number 57 discussion was a difficult one. While some of the concerns raised by those opposed to the nomination, there was clear evidence of canvassing against the nominee (whether those doing the canvassing thought it was canvassing or not). I think this one could have gone either way, and while I likely would have closed it as no consensus, I can understand how it could also be closed as successful. No closing comments on this one concerned me as I think that any potentially controversial closure should have a clear explanation of why the final decision was made, as well as the thought process behind the decision.

I would have likely closed as unsuccessful the LessHeard vanU discussion as I do not believe a sufficient support was shown to justify a successful closure. This discussion was very close, however, so I do not fault the successful closure.

I remember the Carnildo discussion quite well. I would have closed it as unsuccessful as there was very clearly no consensus for a successful closure despite the various attempts at reasoning offered by Taxman and others. While bureaucrats are given some leeway when making decisions which are close calls (such as most of the ones listed here in this question), I do not believe this closure fell anywhere near the leeway allowed for such closures.

I would make no changes to the unsuccessful close of the Aitias 2 discussion as I don't believe adequate support was shown to support a successful outcome. The concerns raised in opposition were valid and carried a lot of weight in this discussion.

The Avraham 2 was close, as noted in the Bureaucrat discussion (which I think was a very good idea in this case). If I had been participating in that discussion, I would have closed it as unsuccessful as well. I think the reasoning offered in the linked discussion is very well thought out and a valid interpretation of consensus.

I agree with the closure of the Ral315 discussion. While bureaucrats have some discretion interpreting "close" discussions, I don't believe this discussion falls within that "gray area". I don't believe sufficient support was shown for a successful close.

On the Quadell discussion, I don't believe sufficient support was shown. While I believe many of the oppose opinions were somewhat weak, I think this was offset by the number of support opinions which offered no explanation for the opinion. Therefore, I don't believe sufficient support was shown for a successful close.

I agree with the reasoned discussion on the closure of the Riana discussion. The oppose opinions expressed were very clear and valid (as opposed to being frivolous), so they carried a lot of weight in the final decision. I believe the the issues raised in opposition were significant enough to support the unsuccessful close of this very close discussion.

The Andrevan3 discussion was a close one, and could have been closed either way. I would have held a discussion with other bureaucrats (such as those used in some of the other discussions mentioned here) in this case in order to determine proper consensus. I think this one was close enough to warrant such a discussion.

That was a lot to go through, and I hope I've answered the questions sufficiently. It's difficult being asked to second guess previous decisions made, especially on discussions which were quite close and could have gone either way. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 07:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Ϣere SpielChequers

9. I noticed that nine of the RFA !votes you've cast recently were on the 7th of May, in one case only two minutes apart. How much research would you expect an RFA !voter to do on a candidate before participating in an RFA?

A. I would expect someone to review the comments already posted in the RfX, as well as review the contributions and interactions of the candidate. The timeframes you mention are a little misleading as I tend to look through everyone and then post comments. I generally take notes while I'm looking through someone's contributions, so it's fairly quick and easy to refer to the notes and express my opinions on several in quick succession. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 17:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Keepscases

10. Do you believe that Breaststroke is an appropriate Wikipedia user name? Why or why not?

A: As it's the name of a particular type of swimming movement, I don't see a problem. I can see why some people might read possible offensiveness into it, but unless a name very clearly violates WP:UN, I don't see a problem with it. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 22:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Ϣere SpielChequers

11. Day 1 of an RFA an editor opposes with a particular rationale, and a number of other editors oppose per that editor. On day two that editor shifts to support, but five days later at the end of the RFA there are still 12 opposes per from editors who don't appear to have revisited the discussion since the editor they are opposing per changed position. What weight do you ascribe to those !votes and in which direction do you count them (in this hypothetical example there are 88 other !votes, 69 supports and 19 opposes)

A: It would depend on what the original reason for opposing was, I think. If the original reason for opposing was due to some misunderstanding which was cleared up, then I think the "per so-and-so" opposes would necessarily carry less weight due to no longer having a valid basis for the oppose. If, on the other hand, the original reason on which they based their opinion was a legitimate concern which was not or could not be adequately addressed and resolved—and therefore could still be a factor in the opinions expressed by others—I think they would still carry the weight. Without a specific example, though, it's difficult to make a determination. In this case, as in any other which appears on the surface to be close to successful, I think it would definitely warrant much more careful consideration of all of the arguments than a discussion which was obviously and overwhelmingly one way or the other. Then, once a decision was made, I would include a well-reasoned statement explaining the thought process that led to the decision. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 22:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Gavin Collins

12. Why do you archive so many discussions on talk pages of topics which are the subject of edtioral disputes? --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 09:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A: Gavin, that's a disingenuous question and you know it. I archive old discussions which haven't been touched on for months. Just because you think a discussion which has had no posts for over three months (or seven months) is still active doesn't mean everyone is going to see it that way. Now, if you have a real question that has something to do with bureaucratship, feel free to add it here. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 16:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Pmlinediter

13. In an RfA, say 70 users Supported, 50 Opposed and 5 were Neutral. However, most of the opposes are very weak, such as "He mistakenly tagged an article with A7 a year ago" or "This user's last RfA was only 3/4 months ago" and most others are "Per User:____". How would you close such an RfA?

A: RfAs are not about percentages, so I'd have to evaluate the discussion based on the actual discussion. If you want to see some real examples, please review the big list above ("Optional question from Aitias"). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 16:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Pmlinediter

14. An RfA ended with 60% support and 40% opposes. However, the main issue raised was by an user who was:-a) a sock puppeteer (discovered after the RfA was closed) or b) an account created few minutes before the RfA was started and most other opposes are per him. What would do in such a situation. (I'll prefer an answer individually to both parts).

A: RfAs are not about percentages, so I'd have to evaluate the discussion based on the actual discussion. If it was shown that one or more of the participants was a sock, then that would be taken into account appropriately. The same applies to a possible SPA. If you want to see some real examples of what I'd do, please review the big list above ("Optional question from Aitias"). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 16:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Ax

15. What are you willing to go through to have this position, bureaucrat?

A: The normal process, just like any other potential bureaucrat. If there is more to your question than that, please clarify. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 10:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This answer is okay. Awaiting your answer to my other question.

Question from Ax

16. Why should I vote for an Oppose?

A: I'm sorry, but I do not understand your question. Please clarify. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 10:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If I opposed your bureaucratship? What do you think Wikipedia will be missing?

Thank you for the clarification. I think Wikipedia would be missing out on someone who has an excellent grasp on what bureaucrats do, as well as a fair-minded bureaucrat. I think my answers above, especially the ones to Aitias' questions, show that I understand the applicable policies and procedures, and have a good handle on how they should be applied. The main points of a good bureaucrat are whether they understand how to determine consensus (which I have shown that I do) and whether they have a good grasp on the applicable policies, guidelines, and procedures (which I do). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 18:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

Links for Nihonjoe: Nihonjoe (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
Edit summary usage for Nihonjoe can be found here.
Promote Nihonjoe (bureaucrats only)

Please keep discussion constructive and civil.

Discussion

Editing/admin stats posted at the talk page. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 22:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Support Has the needed experience. -down load ׀ sign! 23:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. You are an extremely experienced editor and administrator which leads me to support. The only worry I have is your lack of actual participation at WT:RFA and on RfAs themselves. I will assume good faith and believe that you are lurking, though I hope you will take a more active role at RfA in the future. Malinaccier (talk) 23:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - trustworthy admin. PhilKnight (talk) 23:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Malinaccier. LITTLE MOUNTAIN 5 23:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly: my interactions with Nihonjoe have always been positive, and I have no problem with him being a bureaucrat. Also due to what I said here. Acalamari 23:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Switched from neutral. Sure; seems trustworthy upon further evaluation. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 23:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support as candidate has never been blocked and as in the literally dozens of AfDs the candidate closed in which I commented, only 4 closes were incorrect, so judgment overall is sound and thus would probably trust to close other consensus reaching discussions such as RfAs. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 00:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per A Nobody and Malinaccier. tempodivalse [☎] 00:48, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support — I have several reasons to believe that this editor is suited for the bureaucrat tools. 1) Long-time editor and admin who has a proven track record of thoughtfulness and fairness; 2) Active participation in XfD indicates that Joe (if it's ok to call him that) has solid experience in determining consensus; 3) Answers to the questions indicate that Joe has a decent understanding of the role of a 'crat and will not promote a candidate without thoroughly thinking things over; 4) Not so much a reason to support in itself, but participation at WT:RFA is not, in my honest opinion, a good criterion to oppose an RfB over. Very few things are ever accomplished on that page — the discussions revolve around generally trivial issues that mean very little in the scheme of things. I lurk there too, and I also rarely participate in discussions unless they are interesting enough to me. But back to the point, Nihonjoe is no fool, and I'm pretty sure we can trust him not to break Wikipedia as a 'crat. Master&Expert (Talk) 01:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Joe appears to have an excellent track record as an editor and an admin. Good luck! Pastor Theo (talk) 02:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Not a controvercial admin as far as I know. Also an excellent track record. --Kaaveh (talk) 06:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, passes the clue test. Stifle (talk) 08:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not too convinced, but have no big reservations. Support per answer to Aitas' question. Pmlinediter ^Talk 08:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support (Changed from oppose) Activity in the bureaucrat-related areas is entirely irrelevant, if one has the only quality that's relevant for a bureaucrat — good judgement. Given Nihonjoe's answer to my question (Q8), I have no doubt at all that Nihonjoe possesses this quality. Thus, I'm happy to support. — Aitias // discussion 12:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Absolutely. Nihonjoe has a clue, and as evidenced by his answers appreciates and employs nuance and critical thinking. Not being a WT:RFA groupie is also a strong plus, given that 90% of the conversation there is either about DougsTech, spillover from IRC/WR, or some combination of the two. Hiberniantears (talk) 13:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Response to Aitias' question demonstrates plenty of clue. Candidate does not need to be part of the bi-monthly "NOT ENOUGH CANDIDATES HOW DO WE MAKE MORE CANDIDATES HERE ARE MY IN-DEPTH IDEAS OH GOD WAIT NOW TOO MANY CANDIDATES HELP" screeching freak-outs to understand the underlying principles of consensus. In fact, I propose that his distance from the WT:RFA crowd is in fact a good thing - there is such a thing as caring too much, and getting sucked into various idea cliques is very counter-productive to the Bureaucratics' role as neutral third party observers, rather than biased second party participants. Most of the really awful, questionable, or "merely" controversial Bureaucratic decisions seem to have a common undercurrent of cliquery - "this is close, but you're my buddy, so as long as there's some support, I can brush aside the criticisms without really personally addressing them" reduces "gauging consensus" to mere "counting heads". I'm surprised so many of the opposes here seem to be arguing the opposite. Badger Drink (talk) 19:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Shouldn't be a problem.--Giants27 (t|c|r|s) 22:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Largely per Badger Drink. wt:rfa is a tedious fairground ride where the same dreary fads and revelations come round every couple of days or so. Only the neurotic or the narcissist would resolve to leave his stamp in every discussion there. In the absence of any substantive reason to distrust him, Nihonjoe looks an excellent candidate for bureacratship. Flowerparty^☀ 23:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support All opposes as of this edit are only about what the nominee is currently involved in. He/she has no problems, and I don't see a reason to not support. Renaissancee (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Sure. — Jake Wartenberg 01:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Total trust in his ability to react calmly and fairly to drama. Total confidence that he won't cause drama himself. Long, consistent record of involvement in the project. While the opposers are discussing recent involvement in RfA, I have difficulty understanding why anyone would doubt Nihonjoe's understanding of what RfA entails or doubt that he could perform the job well. Dekimasuよ! 01:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support No issues, user has exhibited fair judgement. --Maverx (talk) 03:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think users hold bureaucrat candidates to ridiculously high standards. I disagree with most of the discussion below in the oppose section, also noting a significant amount of hypocrisy within a few of the opposition comments when reflecting the behavior and actions of the corresponding users. But that's all beside the point here. I've seen Nihonjoe around and trust his judgment. The user hasn't done anything that anybody has deemed unacceptable or in poor judgment but are just complaining about what Nihonjoe hasn't done. While this should definitely hold some weight in such a venue, I believe people are giving it too much weight. - Rjd0060 (talk) 03:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think I supported last time. It's been so long I don't remember. Yes, please. Keegan^talk 04:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, trustworthy admin, good answers to the questions and I think will be a good judge of consensus. Dreadstar † 04:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per M&E, Stifle, and Aitias. --Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 04:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since you were here since 2005, I see no reason for opposing given the 3+ years of experience. –BuickCentury Driver 09:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support No issues here. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 14:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I originally had reservations about this request due to some of the issues pointed out below, specifically a lack of active participation in the areas where a bureaucrat is likely to be most important, ie. RFA and related pages. However, I find I am swayed by the argument that good judgement is, ultimately, the most important qualifier for the "position" and based on the answers above and a little additional research it looks to me like the candidate does indeed possess the required good judgement. One need not be a policymaker to be a solid enforcer of policy; one need not be an active participant in the discussions to be a good judge of their outcome. Shereth 15:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support It shouldn't matter whether or not the candidate is active in the particular field in which he wants to work. As long as he has good judgment, he deserves to be promoted. The answers to the questions convince me Nihonjoe has good judgment in bureaucrat areas, so I see no reason to oppose. Tim meh !_{(review me)} 17:12, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I've seen him around a lot, I wonder why others haven't. And in every case I've thought his contributions were good and rational. I don't see reason why a bureaucrat should need to have had significant participation in RfA. So basically: good editor/admin and I don't find the oppose arguments relevant. Hobit (talk) 17:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support has my full trust. Durova^Charge! 18:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Fully qualified and admin actions have been outstanding.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:16, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I support because I see good work and plenty of clue, and feel I can trust Nihonjoe's judgment, but I also support for the reasons Badger Drink mentioned. There was a recent query on the talk page regarding criteria for RFBs, and I almost added one of the qualities I look for in a b'crat: disinterest. Nihonjoe shows traits of DGAFism when it comes to RFA, and that is something I consider suitable for this very particular job. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:58, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Opposition is far from convincing. Perceived inactivity is a relative thing (inactive by what gold standard?), and I think Nihonjoe looks trustworthy. Let's assume good faith here. Steven Walling (talk) 04:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm impressed with this user. Pzrmd (talk) 06:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Am impressed by the editor's responses to the questions and particularly by his responses to the oppose votes. Well explained, forceful, and no pandering. Just what we need in a crat. --RegentsPark (My narrowboat) 18:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - I think that your answers to Aitias' question show that you know what you are doing, but it would probably be better if you had more edits in crat areas. J.delanoy ^gabs _adds 23:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per answers to Question 8. t'shael ^mindmeld 00:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support per not enough... Nevermind. Looking through the diffs and contribs, I find only positive contributions to Wiki English. The candidate shows the desire to improve, protect, and defend our site. I think the answers to the questions are honest, forthright, and of quality content. I see no reason to oppose this. — Ched : ? 04:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I see no problem with this admin. I think he is willing to learn and sort things out if he becomes a bureaucrat. ax (talk) 06:33, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support No problems here. This user has my trust. --S iva1979^{Talk to me} 06:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I see no reason to oppose. This admin has exhibited fair judgement.--Bukubku (talk) 15:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I have looked through the opposes and neutrals and well, frankly, I find them quite unconvincing. This user has shown a desire to improve and learn from past mistakes and will probably make an excellent crat. Good Luck! -FASTILY ^(TALK) 00:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Fair and trustworthy admin. Oda Mari (talk) 01:26, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support There seems to be this mantra that an admin must have a high enough drama mongering level before he or she can be considered for bureaucrat. Thankfully, this admin has no interest in such BS. I have full confidence in this candidate. Vodello (talk) 01:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support – User is trustworthy, capable and will be an asset with the extra tools. American Eagle (talk) 03:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
When are you guys going to get it? He could talk about RFA all the time for all I care, and still lack good judgment. But he doesn't he has excellent judgment, and is wise to stay clear of WT:RFA. I think Joe will make an extremely good and influential bureaucrat. ceranthor 12:03, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - No reason to oppose, looks a great candidate. S D 5 13:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Looks good to me. OtisJimmyOne 14:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I read and considered the oppose votes below, most of which appear to be variations of Majorly's rationale, and I respectfully don't agree with them. When Nihonjoe says that he has actively observed RfAs as a lurker, I believe him. About the allegations of bias by Caspian Blue, please consider the source of that accusation before putting any credence in it. If you want to know more about what I'm talking about, just leave a note on my talk page. Cla68 (talk) 21:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I'm not very convinced by the opposes. Spencer^{T♦Nominate!} 00:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support He has my trust for quite some time now. -- Ned Scott 04:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support «l| ?romethean ™|l» (talk) 09:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

You simply are not very active at all in the areas you wish to work - namely RFA, which is all that matters really (I don't care for clerking at CHU, or hanging out at bot requests - it's RFA that is the most contentious area). It's all very well watching them, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to take part, but I don't believe I've ever really seen you (at least recently) get involved, which shows a sign of interest. Sorry. And please don't just get active on RFA just for the sake of passing RFB next time, because that will be frowned upon by many. Either you're interested or you aren't, and you just don't seem to be. Majorly talk 22:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per Majorly. Lurking is one thing, active participation is another. I am struggling to remember any valued input at WT:RFA and WP:RFA - and for a bureaucrat, that's just not a good sign. Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 23:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As noted by Majorly, you don't seem to be active at RFA and related pages. If by your third request for the shinier tools, you still don't seem to have shown a consistent and well-grounded interest in RfA and its processes, this RfB only looks like hat collecting. Sorry, but I do not trust your judgment. ÷seresin 00:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per this and this, you've never edited WT:Bots/Requests for approval or WP:CHU, and others have mentioned the RFA situation. I don't think you've made a case for what you'd be doing as a crat. - Dank (push to talk) 02:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I expect a crat to be very well-known in the community and to firmly have the trust of the community. I don't have an opinion about Nihonjoe since I've never heard of him/her before, so from my point of view I don't know if either point is necessarily true. I have much higher expectations from a crat candidate than an admin candidate. I expect a crat's contributions have already told their story of why they should be a crat without having to do any research. Sorry. Royal broil 04:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be honest with you, looking over the oppose rationales from your first two RfB's I have to say I'm shocked... some of those reasons were pretty lame. That being said, there was an undercurrent in them that said, Joe doesn't have experience in the areas where 'crats work. He doesn't work there and doesn't have a footprint in them. You've run for 'crat twice, you've been told that you need experience in the areas where crats work. You claim to monitor RfA/RfB's so you should know that people want to see experience in those areas, yet you haven't prevailed it upon yourself to gain that experience? I was going to pose it as a question, why? But I decided that if you really wanted to work in these areas, then you would have gained a some experience therein. You would have taken to heart the comments from previous RfB's questioning your preparation for the tasks at hand. You would have taken to heart the objections posed to others who have failed their RfB's. The fact that you have not done so says that you didn't listen to the community's voice when it speaks or you don't care. Looking at your edit history, I see somebody who is incredibly silo'ed in his edits. 80 plus percent of your edits relate to Japan. Almost all of the AfD's I saw you involved with were on Japan. If you exclude the month of May, where you participated in a handful of RfA's, you've only been involved in 2 RfA's in the past two years! I'm sorry, but if you are interested in a job get some experience and desire to work those jobs. The fact that you have virtually no experience in any of the areas where 'crats work has me wondering why you want to be a 'crat?---I'm Spartacus! ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 08:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose First, let me say that as an admin, I don't see anything wrong. But after reading Majorly's oppose v!ote, I am swayed to oppose. Sorry. America69 (talk) 10:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Lack of visible experience in the areas 'crats work in. Nihonjoe, posting at RfA, T:RfA, all the rest might not show that you know the policies, but it provides a way for the community to check you know the policies - the same reason we wouldn't give a user with 500 edits the tools. Yes, they might be excellent edits, but with such a small number it is difficult to make sure that the person grasps all the relevant policies. Of course, if you spent time around RfA, you'd know this. I note that a similar point was brought up in your last RfB, and that this is a point you have obviously failed to address. We wouldn't promote an admin who failed to address points from a previous RfA, yet alone a 'crat. The problem with your attitude (well, the main one, there are several) is this - as a bureaucrat, you will be required to judge community consensus in RfAs, weeding out opposes based on complete bollocks and making a decision when consensus is on a knife-edge between "yes, we want him as an admin" and "no, we don't want him as an admin". The idea that a prospective admin or 'crat should be experienced in the areas in which he or she wishes to work is an accepted one, and I don't like the idea of RfA yea/nay decisions being made by a man whose opinion of what is or is not needed for a potential admin or bureaucrat runs completely against the grain of what the community feels. I've probably phrased this all rather badly, but I hope I got my opinion across. Ironholds (talk) 11:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose with regret. Potential bureacrats should have demonstrated thought leadership in WT:RFA and at WP:RFA. I haven't seen that from you. I'd liek to see you step up your involvement here, like Avi did after his first RfB. Majoreditor (talk) 02:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as I have found your attitude and behaviour at Talk:Dan Willis (author) to be disconcerting and, at times, bordering on the biziarre when it comes to discussing basic concepts such as notability in relation to articles which you have created or edited. I have had to resolve to mediation in order to discuss this issue with you in a civil and reasonable fashion. I don't think you are sufficiently sober or level headed person to be taking this responsibility. --Gavin Collins (talk|contribs) 08:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, basically per Majorly. I can't see anything seriously wrong with your contribs, but I also can't recall any significant input you've had into anything around RFA recently. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 09:05, 4 June 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Oppose, per Majorly re the low participation in this area (we need active people), and also low participation on other wikis. Furthermore, "go to hell" over on jawiki is inappropriate. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 14:22, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not because of the candidate's distrust issue, WP:Incivility, WP:COI and WP:Neutrality and other concerns that admins generally do not carry with them, as well as his obvious lack of B'crat activities, and his not enough vision. I know that by addressing my vote here at this time, at least some editor, my long-term ardent fan would "coincident" appear to support the candidate after me, but here I am. Usually, I do not vote for obvious WP:NOTNOW or WP:SNOW cases or RFA/Bs with below 70% support except in few occasions like this. This is obviously not gonna be successful for the legitimate concerns that I'm Spartacus!, Jaybdv and others correctly have raised in the oppose section. "The most important things in a crat are integrity and trust of the community; does Nihonjoe have that trust?" That answer is "Absolutely not". That is just because of the fact that I and the candidate had very bad experiences with each other, but also because of the issues addressed in the first sentence. I felt odd at his "sudden (maybe re)participation in RFAs" since May but his suddenness proves to be a pavement for the RfB as Majorly pointed out. Given the candidate's history, the candidate does not have a patience to try himself to get the community high expectation in specific areas such as Checkuser, or Arbitrator aside from B'crat. He used to be a Checkuser clerk but quit for whatever reason. He ran for RfB previously twice, but did not try "hard" to get the (narrowly RFA/B) community's approval for two years, but suddenly reappears for getting the new tool as insisting that he is "qualified". Also his ArbCom election pages show low voters participation compared to other candidates. It is also interesting to note that his project members opposed him to become an Arbitrator. He had trust issues back then and still has.
Weak oppose due to the fact that he said he would work at XfD. I am an active editor over there and frankly I've never heard of him. A check of contribs confirmed that he really isn't that active over there. If someone wants to be a 'crat, I feel they have to be active in the areas that they say they are going to work at. Again, not THAT big of a deal, but enough http:https://www.duhoctrungquoc.vn/wiki/index.php?lang=en&q=User:MarkS/XEB/live.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s">to where I won't support. Sorry. Tavix | Talk 17:10, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No offense, but when I see your name I remember seeing it in some sort of arguments or civility issues in the past; I don't have diffs or links offhand, but I see some of the other !votes above mentioned civility as well, and I think a 'crat ought to be relatively pristine. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 04:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Further to Majorly's comments, I am struck by the inappropriateness of the answer to Q.5; you were not then a Bureaucrat, so there is no reason to simply observe and not involve yourself - and participation would likely give reviewers a better understanding of your working knowledge of judging such issues.I am further concerned that you are requesting 'crat flags for a third time, and seemingly without really addressing the issue of non-participation noted above and in the failed requests; my impression is that you do not believe that the participation issue is valid and the concerns expressed are therefore negligible. I also wonder why you wish to aspire to the office if you are not seemingly concerned by the issue raised here and previously(edit comment; I should have simply said, "Per User:I'm Spartacus' response." instead of what the foregoing. LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:10, 5 June 2009 (UTC)) LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:03, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It seems to me that it would have been possible to construct a case that not taking strong stances at RfA and not having your own criteria could have made you better able to be an "honest broker" on behalf of the community. Being neutral on these issues could make you better able to do the crat's job of weighing arguments and speaking for the community. You'd probably need to be able to point to a history of doing just that, for example a substantial body of work closing discussions and weighing consensus at AfD. Of course to make that case, you need to grapple with the opposing argument. It seems to me, you have chosen instead to reject the entire opposing argument, just insisting you do know the procedures. I accept that. But that isn't really enough. We need to know you will be able to understand how to read the flow of a discussion and to come to decisions that both sides will usually see as fair. That involves being able to understand where both sides are coming from and address their arguments in a reasoned way that is free of rancour. (I don't think Dank was being "disingenuous" or that Sparatcus is guilty of "faulty reasoning".) That you haven't been able to do that in the discussion here speaks volumes. Dean B (talk) 02:38, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Please review my unfortunate interaction with Nihonjoe here. Nihonjoe did not follow the speedy deletion policy. Did his speedy deletion really improve the situation? It should have been clear to him that I was intending to expand the article at that time. It is interesting to see that the majority of administrators who commented at that ANI agreed with Nihonjoe's stance. However that stance is in contradiction to the speedy deletion criteria. Perhaps the cohort of administrators as a whole are tacitly changing the speedy deletion criteria to suit their own standards? In any case, Nihonjoe made two bad calls (firstly the speedy deletion itself, secondly closing the deletion review). I don't trust him. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are other (albeit not currently nominated) candidates more active in the areas that bureatcracy requires activity in. In RFAs, opposes are often given for not being active in XFD or being involved in patrol at all, and I think that applies here, albeit with different areas being the issue. Esteffect (talk) 16:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. When I see a new candidate at WP:RfA, I not only expect them to have knowledge of our policies, but to be active in the areas the plan to work in. As a candidate for bureaucratship, I expect the same. Nihonjoe has not demonstrated that, leading to my oppose. — Σ xplicit 20:21, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per evidences shown by User:Axl OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 02:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While i don't doubt that he "lurks" at CHU and RFA like he claims, he needs to have documented experience in those areas. Triplestop (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above and I don't think Nihojoe is a right person for the job because he does not act neutral.--Historiographer (talk) 14:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I sat on this all week. I just can't support. I'm sorry Nihonjoe, but I feel you are just not ready yet. iMatthew : Chat 18:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral

You seem like an excellent and experienced administrator, and I've seen you around quite a bit. That said, I share Majorly's concerns. Judging by your contribs you've only been active at RfA for the past month or so, and before that, you rarely ever participated in 'crat-related areas. While I don't view this as something to oppose over, I'm afraid I can't support. Hence, neutral for now. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 23:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've participated quite a lot more than that (having been here for 3½ years and all, with over 50K edits), but until the last month or so, I'd had a long spell where I didn't have the time to participate as much as I'd like (due to heavy involvement in creating and improving the actual encyclopedia content of the site). I still watched the page and read through may of the noms. Recently I've once again had the time to participate as often as I have in the past. So, yes, in the recent past, I haven't participated as much, but I have plenty of experience in this area. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, but should this request succeed, will you still visit and/or participate in RfA? –Juliancolton | ^Talk 23:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. And I won't close any RfAs in which I participate, either. :) ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good then, moved to support. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 23:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral Can't make up my mind. Meetare Shappy ^Cunkelfratz! 00:12, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral: 'crat tools are not necessary for editing/creating content which is what this user seems focused on right now (as above answer to Juliancolton, emphasis on editing skills, and lack of 'crat related experience inc. on WP:RFA demonstrate). Coldmachine^Talk 07:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral ~~(leaning to support)~~ I have no doubt in my mind that this candidate can continue to be impartial and objective as a crat. What I do mull over though are the points raised by the opposing !voters. I went through the candidate's (great) contributions but I could not find a single comment made to WT:RFA, although RFA is an area they want to work on (while I know that WT:RFA does not have the best reputation, it is useful to evaluate one's knowledge of that area). I did notice the candidate !voting is several RFAs though. But while I agree that adminship is not a big deal and one important question is whether the candidate for it might abuse the tools, I do not see much help for the candidates in !voting support only based on these two aspects (while it might be flattering for the candidate to know that you trust them, it's not really feedback they might find useful). That said, I really cannot evaluate the candidate's knowledge in the crat related areas (especially RFA) at the moment but I hope they can provide further insights by answering further questions ~~(like Aitias' question #8)~~ (stupid edit conflicts, still, I'm not convinced yet, will think about it further...). Regards So Why 08:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: I knew something was bothering me and Axl found it. I remember that discussion well and it was just 2 months ago. Being bold is nice and good but the way Nihonjoe handled the DRV is not how I want an admin to behave. The deletion was outside policy (as Amalthea remarked correctly) and if this were an RFA, it would be reasons for concern. But to close the DRV about one's own actions oneself is simply too "bold". DRV serves to discuss whether an admin's actions were correct and it should not be the same admin closing his own DRV if they are not willing to undo their actions. Userfying is not an undoing, it's essentially saying "my deletion was correct but here is the article to work on it until I like it". Nihonjoe might see closing the DRV as natural but he should not have made that decision because he was clearly convinced that his previous actions were correct as well. The point is that an admin and much less a crat should never do anything that even looks like they were using the tools to their own gain. Defending such actions as boldness misses this essential point. It's not enough to lead me to oppose but it's enough to keep me from supporting. Regards So Why 12:11, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral You appear to have very good judgment demonstrated in the answers to the questions posed but you don't seem to be using your admin tools very much so why would you need even more tools? The opposes are also convincing. In the end I don't think it's enough that you wouldn't abuse the bureaucrat tools, you have to need them and plan to use them. I'm only commenting because I put a good bit of time into evaluating the information and deciding not to make a decision is harder than making one. Drawn Some (talk) 23:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, leaning to support Per SoWhy ⊕Assasin Joe ^talk 14:04, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, leaning to support I'm not sensing any major alarns as much as community consensus that more experience and heightened familiarty is needed so I could also be swayed. -- Banjeboi 08:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I'd like to support, but am dismayed a little by interaction with Axl and application of speedy deletion there, sorry. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Moral Support? :) I've interacted with NihonJoe before (reference question #12 above) but I don't know him that well, nor am I really sure what a 'crat is or does. :) BOZ (talk) 01:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Once needs to listen to messengers, not shoot them. -- billinghurst (talk) 10:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can't decide, and so going neutral to voice my thoughts: I feel that the candidacy is a tad weak, but would concede that the candidate seems to be an unproblematic and active administrator. This one is a difficult call; I suppose he'd be an okay bureaucrat—and I'm thus not minded to oppose—but I don't feel I can confidently support for now. Nothing personal: you seem like a nice chap. AGK 18:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I can trust Joe that he wouldn't do anything crazy if he was a crat, however the lack of involvement in crat areas concerns me to the point where I cannot support. Best. MBisanz ^talk 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - Not enough experience in bureaucrat-related areas, but you're a good admin, so I do not wish to oppose. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Read as moral support! -- Tinu Cherian - 04:58, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Almost--Abce2|AccessDenied 20:22, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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