requests For Adminship/Archive 140

I'd say few weeks in the beginning of Wikipedia, when admins were declared by request on the mailing list, like User:Ed Poor. So#Why 09:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

More interesting would be if (and if, how) the average "project participation age" until adminship has changed over time. Also, IIRC, it was once shown that e.g. the —strictly statistical, of course— probability of a user becoming an admin has a peak and starts to sink after a certain amount of time, i.e. if you're not an admin by then, your chances of ever becoming one approach zero. user:Everyme 09:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
I guess that's because if you haven't got it by a certain point you're either 1) not interested in becoming one or 2) have (as I have) cocked up and applied so many times your chances of success are minimal and you don't bother going for it anymore. I wonder what the stats on number of admin requests would be; I.e as the number of requests by one user increases, so his chance of succeeding in one falls. Ironholds 09:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
No, I think it's more like the people who have been around for a while 1) don't need/want the tools, 2) don't want to go through this process, 3) have so many edits that they are frowned upon, and 4) have enough edits that they've probably made somebody somewhere upset. If I were to guess, I would say that one's chances of passing an RfA decline after 10K edits. The optimal candidate, based on my impression, has 7-9 months experience and 5-8K edits. More than that seems to be a issue... less than 5K edits and 6 months experience is also an issue for some. I think the key isn't how long you've been editing, but how many edits have you made... Candidates with 15K edits RARELY seem to pass.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 14:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that the answer lies somewhere between six and nine months at present, with a minimum level of contributions being somewhere between two and three thousand. It's worth pointing out that these are by no means minimum standards, and more of a gut feel from recent successful adminship requests. Hope this helps, Gazimoff_{(mentor/review)} 11:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

The minimum edit threshold is probably pretty accurate but I'm not so sure the 6-9 month window is right. I know several admins who were wikians over a year and some 2 years before becoming admins. — Rlevse • Talk • 12:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Well you get it work out as a bell curve, i'm guessing. The core could be 6-9 months, but with 1,500-odd admins there are going to be a LOT of outliers. I know of one admin who made it after 4 months. Ironholds 12:51, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

• If you ignore the couple clumsy edits in 2006, and the sporadic IP edits between then and Jan 15, 2008, it took me about 4.5 months. –xeno (talk) 13:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I have seen cases where it's as short as one month, during the 'Golden Ages'. - Mailer Diablo 13:24, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
You mean the times before the advent of tactical voting? Must have been wonderful. user:Everyme 13:32, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Yup, the days where adminship was really considered no big deal yet. - Mailer Diablo 15:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Anybody know about cross-wiki records records in other wikis? Maybe there's a thing on meta? BalkanFever 14:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

What, making admin in several wiki's within X months of each other? Stewards, of course, don't count; they have some kind of zen thing where they are admins on all wiki's simultaneously :P. Ironholds 14:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I just meant records in other wikis (French, Sicilian, Kannada etc.). BalkanFever 14:28, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
You will have to check with them separately. Cultural differences and difference(s) in policy makes it as such there is little interest in crunching data and publishing it. Meta is pretty dry save matters relating to global rights. - Mailer Diablo 15:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, the less users a language wiki has, the easier it is to gain sysop there. En-wiki or de-wiki for example have very high standards based on the fact that they are very large while projects like simple-wiki or da-wiki have most likely less strict rules for sysopship. ;-) So#Why 15:32, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Ah, de-wiki. That legendary place where vandalism is minute due to the small number of people who speak german compared to those who speak english, and those who edit can actually contribute rather than spend their time reverting 12 year olds who lack a sense of humour. It's just down the A3 past candyfloss mountain and the river of gumdrop jelly. Ironholds 09:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I just finished making a statement on the talk page for Gazimoff's RfA. I really did not want to see this happen to such a nice guy. I asked him if he wanted Keepcases question on his RfA, because if not, I would revert it. He said he would consider answering it, and to leave it for now. I undid the edit that removed the question, noting this in the edit summary. And I am to be reverted regardless. We need to establish more than one thing here. What questions are appropriate, and what to do when they are added. Lastly, what should we do when a candidate has offered to answer. Synergy 19:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

My take, let the candidate decide, and make it clear that they have the authority to decide these things. We shouldn't make them answer questions they aren't comfortable with when they don't directly pertain to the candidate's ability to be an admin. As far as removing the question in question goes, there's no point edit warring over it; if Gazimoff wants to readd and answer it he can and probably will. lifebaka (talk - contribs) 19:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Which is why I haven't re added the question. I still think we should create an essay (I've suggested Wikipedia:Optional questions twice already) to reflect what the community thinks about it. Synergy 19:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, after this concludes (by which I probably mean is no longer going anywhere useful, but I've got my fingers crossed) I'd be happy to help you write one. Or write one myself with your help (but then it'd be at User:Lifebaka/Optional questions and mostly just be my opinion, which I might do anyways). lifebaka (talk - contribs) 21:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Guys, whatever happens, just sort it out here, don't edit war over it please. Scarian^{Call me Pat!} 19:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it is inappropriate for another editor to remove these questions. The candidate has several choices, including refuse to answer explicitly, ignore it (implicitly refusing to answer), answer directly, answer humorously, ask for clarification...all of which are appropriate responses and do, in fact, expand on the community's knowledge of the candidate's demeanor. As I've said elsewhere, as far as I can tell, every one of User:Keepscases' questions is unique and they are pretty hard to "study" for. I will also say that the drug one wasn't my favorite, and this one is a bit morbid, but I would follow up with: how many of us do have a plan for what would happen in the case of our permanent, unalterable, retirement?  Frank  |  talk  20:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Of all idiotic questions which have been asked at a RFA (and there are/were a lot of those), this one ranks pretty high. Garion96 (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Please try to keep your comments at least productive. Synergy 20:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Truth is not productive? :) Garion96 (talk) 20:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Truth is relative, hence WP:V requires something stronger than truth. Therefore, no, truth is not inherently productive. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
What I meant Garion, was that calling the question idiotic will not help the situation. I'm asking for constructive comments to produce consensus for future actions. Basically, something to reflect upon for later events. Synergy 20:47, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. It just was an idiotic question. Removing it was a sensible thing to do and should be done again if another one of those will be asked (and it will) in a future RFA. Garion96 (talk) 20:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that essay mostly suggests that we don't, as it tends not to send discussions in useful directions. Exactly what's happening here. Take it to user talk pages, please. lifebaka (talk - contribs) 21:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that is the other essay Wiki: Don't call a spade a spade. But this is getting too unrelated to the topic at hand. My point is still the same, whether you call it an idiotic question or not. I think it is a good thing that the question was removed since it really served no good purpose. Garion96 (talk) 21:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

And yet, you weren't the one who asked the question, so you really aren't able to know whether it served its purpose to the editor that did ask it.  Frank  |  talk  21:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I found the question quite interesting. I actually have a request in my will to be added to WP:DIED. Useight (talk) 21:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Funny, because I actually did that, too. I think they'll just take it as a suicide threat though, so it might just get rvv'ed. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 23:57, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Hm...I've always wondered how one gets added to WP:DIED. I'll do that and bequeath my negative assets to the Project. Lazulilasher (talk) 15:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Sweet...would that work? ;-)  Frank  |  talk  20:46, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Keep me aprised of this situation if it escalates. — Rlevse • Talk • 18:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• If you are granted adminship status, who in real life will you tell about this?. Totally irrelevant, invasion of privacy. –xeno (talk) 15:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
  These questions are getting ridiculous. I'm guessing this question might be a way to maneuver around an age question? Mastrchf (^t/_c) 15:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
  Theoretically it could be, but knowing Keepscases, I'd have to assume good faith and say he isn't trying to circumvent that. Perhaps he's trying to determine how much the candidate would brag and, therefore, possibly indicate that he sees adminship as a trophy. Just a possibility. Useight (talk) 16:08, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
  A very possible option also. Either way, I don't think this is relevant in any way. Mastrchf (^t/_c) 16:14, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
  • I did remove it, but the candidate answered it nevertheless. Here's another example of the question irrelevance. Rudget 16:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to (as usual) jump in against censoring this question. First of all, the candidate can choose not to answer it. Second, it's not a problem to find out a bit about how a person thinks outside of Wiki English. I don't think it's irrelevant at all and might well serve to illuminate about the candidate. I would add that while "age-ism" is probably wrong-headed, it can work to support a candidate too. My own RfA received some support on the basis of me being a parent (of multiple teenagers) IRL. Relevant? I wasn't asked, and I offered it really sort of casually...and some appreciated it. But it was real - it was about who I am - and at least some editors found it illuminating enough to support me for it. Heck, one even called me a silver surfer, and I'm well under 50 :-)  Frank  |  talk  16:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not really sure why everyone's so surprised. It's a bit of an odd question (and IMO, unnecessary and probably shouldn't have been asked), but Keepsakes is notorious for asking questions that are sort of 'out there', and they've done this before. Is this really any different from the other questions (s)he's asked candidates? As Frank said, the nominee has the choice of answering the question or not; obviously since this one's so controversial no one's going to oppose him for not answering it, so it's not that big a deal. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 20:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It's because of discussions like this that people keep asking questions like that. If there wasn't a porcelain-based typhoon after every odd RFA question they would stop being asked. There does not need to be arbitrary rules about what can and can't be asked, it just needs to be reinforced that if a candidate is uncomfortable with a question they don't have to answer it. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 23:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Everybody is shouting at Keepscases. What about the question of Kurt Weber? (Are cool-down blocks ever acceptable?)
If your answer is “no”, Kurt will oppose your RfA and if your answer is “yes”, others will oppose your RfA. Just look at the RfA of MrKIA11. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 08:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Its a tricky question. It involves the thought process of the candidate. If the answer is well reasoned, it will be accepted, if not, you will fail. End of story. Synergy 11:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
It's an easy one. If you answer inline with policy Kurt will oppose. If you answer against policy, every man and their sockpuppet will oppose. Basic math. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 11:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm a relatively experienced editor, but only recently started participating in RFA discussions, and I've got a couple of questions that aren't answered in the Guide to RFA. Just wondering:

1. As well as 'support' and 'oppose' votes, 'neutral' comments are also frequently made at RFA. Are these taken into account by bureaucrats when closing RFAs? A 'neutral' position would seem to me a little like a mild oppose, as it shows that the editor is unwilling to support this candidate; hence, could a candidate's RFA could be rejected purely on the basis of concerns raised in the 'neutral' comments?
2. Similarly: Another common vote is 'Moral support' - in fact, I just made one myself. But then I thought I should probably check exactly what it means. Does 'Moral support' mean 'support, despite reservations'? Or does it mean 'I wish I could support; morally, I would; but I actually can't for such-and-such reasons'? If it's the latter, that's really more of an 'oppose', and should perhaps be listed in the other section. How do Bureaucrats treat these?
3. Lastly: after receiving some myself, I'm just wondering if Wikipedia has a policy on RFA 'thankspam' - talkpage messages by candidates to those who commented on their RFA. Is it possible to opt out of receiving these? Personally speaking, if I've commented on an RFA, I'm going to check up on it later to see if it passed or failed - I don't need a message telling me such. (It also seems to me that placing a template on the talkpage of 100 or more users might qualify as Excessive cross-posting, but perhaps I've misunderstood that policy.)

Thanks in advance to those who can answer these questions! Terraxos (talk) 23:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

1. For all practical purposes neutral votes don't matter, they aren't in the math. But they are taken in to account by other !voters, and if the RfA is very close, could be examined by the crats.
2. Moral support is the latter, basically "I would oppose, but I don't want to make you feel bad, and this is not going to pass anyway".
3. Nope, that is a long tradition. Prodego ^talk 00:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

1. Since this is a discussion and a subsequent evaluation of WP:CONSENSUS, I think that neutral comments are definitely important to the process. Many, many times, editors will change their stance during the process. Sometimes they'll move from neutral to an actual side, sometimes from oppose to support...it happens all over the place. The point is that this is a discussion, not a vote, so it is definitely important. It's easy to say after the fact that "the math showed xx%", but it's a far different story when you watch it unfold.
2. Moral support amounts to the same thing - it's part of the discussion. My own take is that editors generally intend that to mean "this isn't going to pass, but I support you anyway because I like what I see and I want to say so rather than just pass this RfA by". But that's a mouthful; who knows if that's what people really mean.
3. Some editors specifically request that thankspam not be left on their talk pages. Sometimes, RfA candidates even honor it :-)  Frank  |  talk  00:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll just go leave a note on my talk page about thank-you messages. Terraxos (talk) 01:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

There is a discussion at Wiki talk:Blocking policy#Cool down blocks about the attempted removal of the provision discouraging cool down blocks from the blocking policy. Nsk92 (talk) 12:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 13:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Would a WP:SNOW or WP:NOTNOW closure be in order? Shapiros10 ^{contact me}_{My work} 21:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Not in my opinion, no. It's running 2/2/1 at the moment. Fritzpoll (talk) 21:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The 2 supports are Moral Support. Shapiros10 ^{contact me}_{My work} 21:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
3/3/1 now. Gears of War 2 21:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
(ec)That's a borderline one. I could see arguments for and against early closure. I'd let it run some more, although it's pretty much a sure thing that it won't pass. Nevertheless, we don't early close things just because they won't pass. I'd suggest waiting a few hours and then possibly asking for an early closure. Enigma ^message 21:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
It's pretty much a lock to make an unsuccessful run, but it should be allowed to run for a bit longer, it's only been going for 30 minutes. Useight (talk) 21:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
(e/c)Still, only three opposes - give it some time is what I'm saying Shapiros :) Fritzpoll (talk) 21:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) multiple times: Eh, give it a few more hours. There's been one actual support. Shapiros10 ^{contact me}_{My work} 21:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Borderline, let it run and perhaps contact Islaammaged126 and ask him to withdraw, that should always be the first step. There's no hurry. RxS (talk) 21:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I've always found it interesting how long some RFAs are open before they snow and how quickly others are snowed. I did some research on it, both comparing the number of edits the candidate has to how many opposers piled on and comparing the number of piled on opposes on a timeline. My data can be seen at User:Useight/No Support. I'm not the best with statistics, but I think there' a decent correlation between piling on and time: in the past, more opposes would pile on before it was closed while now we snow close them faster. If anyone wants to do a real statistical analysis on the data, I have it in an Excel spreadsheet. Useight (talk) 21:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreeing with RxS and I think Useight has a point that SNOW is used kinda quickly, this user's past RfAs are a good indication for that. But I think when he accumulates 10-15 opposes (and I count moral supports in that category because they do not support the request but the spirit) and no support, then SNOW is quite likely. On a side note, I think it would be a great idea to have such a statistical analysis, I would do so myself, but I lack the knowledge to do so, but I am sure someone will be able to. It could serve as a guideline to closing crats. So#Why 21:54, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. I put the "moral support" there because I honestly appreciate his enthusiasm and didn't want him to feel too bad when the opposes arrived. Closing it before it has a chance to get a few of those opposes kind of defeats the purpose somewhat, but I think we've pretty much reached that point now (there are nine in the oppose section). I'd close per NOTNOW, but I participated; instead I left a message on the candidate's talk page. Useight (talk) 22:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Am I alone in believing that offering moral supports (while very nice gestures) may cause the candidate to feel a little despondent - that they require pity supports? Just throwing that out there. Anyway, SNOW closures are rampant lately. Someone drop the candidate a note insisting the likelihood of a fail and see what they wish to do in terms of an official withdrawal. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 22:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I see that they have been notified. Might I suggest something else. If you notice that a user has already suggested a withdrawal, don't pile on and agree on their talk page. I find it quite unnecessary and it comes off as just wanting to get a word in edgewise. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 22:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I, too, usually will also oppose instead of morally support (just check my history), but in this case I just felt like it. Useight (talk) 22:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh, don't worry, Useight, my comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I was just wondering how others felt about the abundance of moral supports that pop up when it appears that an RfA will take a downward spiral. Sometimes I even see "moral support" very early on in the process (before a significant number of opposers have even opined) - makes me go..hmmm. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 22:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I won't link to a policy page supporting my view, because.... there is none. But the rational approach, in my opinion, is to snow close RFA's where the applicant doesn't really know what they're getting themselves into. Islaammaged126 has been here long enough that he does know what he's getting himself into, and it shouldn't be snow closed no matter what. If people feel a compelling need to pile on at an RFA that's at 2-20-1, the personality traits that exposes are their problem. If someone doesn't feel the need to withdraw their RFA when it's at 2-20-1, that's their problem. The existence of such an RFA is not disruptive, and we should avoid the deathwatch of trying to decide when to snow close it. RFA snow closes should only be used (again, IMHO) to spare a clueless neophyte the humiliation of getting their head handed to them because they wanted to help and didn't get it that admins need to have been here a while. --barneca (talk) 22:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Well said. And I thought we had a moratorium on subjects entitled Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/XXX user? –xeno (talk) 22:22, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
I am not sure, this is the case here. The answers to the questions show a lack of policy understanding and while I agree that the fifth try can be regarded as "well, he wants it that way!", in this case I think the user still fails to understand how he will be treated. SNOWing is a case-to-case decision after all. So#Why ^{review me!} 22:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
He's done this four times before, and you don't think he has an idea about how he might be treated? --barneca (talk) 22:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The tally is now 2/10/2, so at this point, I doubt it has a snowball's chance. Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 22:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Look, I'm sure those who opposed in Wiki: Requests for adminship/Natl1 3 had valid points, just as I'm sure I had a valid reason to support (maybe try asking me for clarification if you're confused?), but do we really need to oppose with such civility, or lack thereof? Reading over some of the opposition, some of them seem to be acting as if the candidate requesting adminship is some sort of personal attack against them or something like that. Can we try and assume some more good faith (especially when the candidate has commented on this manner) and not be so accusatory of candidates who, while maybe not ready for adminship, are still good contributors (so please stop insinuating that they're not). —Giggy 06:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, welcome to RfA, where the true natures of both candidate and the real world manifest themselves... —Kurykh 06:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
And where participants sometimes discard the "respectful" bit of being civil - Peripitus (Talk) 06:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Giggy. At least three of the opposers were unnecessarily snipy. Epbr123 (talk) 18:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
I've only been here a year.  :-) I was kinda hoping we could (try to) avoid the wonderful inherent nature of RfA, though. —Giggy 06:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

While I agree, do you (Giggy) not think the candidate would have interpreted your comment as sarcasm/incivility/WP:BITEing? [sic] ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 07:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well I'd hope my obvious sarcasm would have been interpreted as such. It had serious merit though; he basically explained the justification for my support in his Q7 answer. My concerns are with opposition making out the candidate is trying to stealithily game the system by (God forbid) taking a wikibreak. —Giggy 07:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

"Failed to follow self nom instructions ... Sounds like good admin material" - looks more like you're taking the mickey. Sarcasm works really well online because it's so easy to pick up on. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 08:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Was that sarcasm? Or is this? --T B C ♣§♠ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 08:12, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes, it's the artificial, cloying civility that hurts the most. The type where a user feigns civility when he or she clearly wants to bite your head off. :( --T B C ♣§♠ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 07:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

But that is what civility is. You don't need to like someone to be civil, just talk to them nicely. You can even tell someone that you don't like what they do in a civil fashion. Civility is not affection, it is politeness, so I don't see how it could be feigned(unless you mean insults and taunts veiled in civility). Chillum 15:15, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Not referring to being polite, but to insults that are worded in such a way as not to violate WP:CIVIL.--T B C ♣§♠ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 18:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
If it's an insult, it's not civil. Civility in this instance means not rude, and an insult is intended to offend, while politeness, the opposite of being rude, is intended to not offend others. So, if it's an insult, it violates WP:Civil. --Blechnic (talk) 18:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:BITE = Wiki: Please do not bite the newcomers. Yes, Bite only applies to new editors. Experienced editors have WP:CIVIL to cower behind. That aside, I didn't see any of the opposes as being mean or un-civil. People didn't like the fact that he took such a long break, so they opposed on those grounds. To say that people who disagree with you "...seem to be acting as if the candidate requesting adminship is some sort of personal attack against them" isn't really WP:AGFing.--KojiDude ^(C) 14:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, but WP:BITE is only a special case of WP:CIVIL, so there is no real difference. Other than that, everyone is a newbie in a certain field and thus WP:BITE can be used for everyone in a certain way. Also, WP:CIVIL also says that you should not bite experienced editors - you should bite noone ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SoWhy (talk • contribs)
>_> Ah, yes, but with BITE being a special case of CIVIL, it is also a specific case, and that specific-ness limits it's use only to newbies. ;-) Bwa-ha!--KojiDude ^(C) 15:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Running for RfA is like saying "Look at me and point out any flaws". Unless a comment is a breach of civility I don't see a problem with pointing out all the reasons someone should not be an admin. Of course, there is no need to be rude while doing this. Chillum 15:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
But that's the whole point, often RfA regulars aren't careful enough about harming the feelings of the candidate when they comment. It can be a little hurtful sometimes, so please remember the second of the trifecta. ;-) —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 20:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm all in favor of notnowing this RfA... no, snowing it. I haven't seen something this pointy in a long time... and it is without a doubt a failed RfA... I would kill it myself, but I am too appauled at the gual of Mr IP.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 07:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Mighty audacious. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 07:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
NOTNOW is there so people who didn't know exactly what they were getting into don't get demoralized. Mr IP comes off as a guy who knows what he's doing, and as someone who isn't going to get demoralized by negativity. Darkspots (talk) 08:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Very true, but SNOW can certainly be invoked. Given that Mr. IP has announced his experimental RfA, it defeats its purpose and he will not walk away with any constructive criticism. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 08:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Endorse snowball closure. NOTNOW is mainly for newbies, but there is undoubtedly not a snowball's chance in the bottom of the seventh layer of Hell that this RfA will succeed. Forgive me if this sounds uncivil. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 08:08, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
It's easier said than done, don't get me wrong, but what if Mr. IP ran his own experimental RfA and nobody came? Nobody should feel a moral obligation to comment on an RfA if it's a game. Just ignore him. Darkspots (talk) 08:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Agree... NOTNOW isn't the rigt way to clase it, which is why I didn't use it. But SNOW can be... this is a deliberately pointy RfA and here only to cause disruption.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 08:12, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Quote from WP:SNOW: "WP:NOTNOW, an RFA-specific application of the snowball clause" SNOW is probably more appropriate though. It is disappointing that people even give "experiments" like this the time of day and encourage them by supporting. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 08:20, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
WP:NOT-EVER-OR-AT-LEAST-NOT-FOR-A-VERY-LONG-PERIOD-OF-TIME is more suitable, then? Again, I really don't mean to be rude, but I have to be honest, this is rather ridiculous. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 08:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
You know, you did support, oppose, and go neutral. ;) Enigma ^message 08:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, like I said; it's a very unusual circumstance. I was ready to oppose when I saw the nomination, but I appreciated Mr. IP's contributions to the Village Pump, and had no negative interactions so I remained neutral. Later, I was convinced to support, but Balloonman and Wisdom89's arguments were strong enough to switch my stance again. Kind of silly, but there were good arguments on all sides. :-) —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 17:01, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
There's no reason why the candidate can't try again in a few months when they have amassed more than their current 500-or-so edits. Of course, it'll probably result in a snowstorm of references to this RFA. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 08:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Mr IP actually has more than 500 edits... but most are under his IP address... he doesn't like to log on. He is actually a farely well established editor here... but that makes this all the more pointy.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 08:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I should have clarified that I meant "500-or-so edits on the account they are running for adminship on". Edits spread out over IP addresses can't be checked, vetted and torn apart, like in usual RFA fashion. ~ AmeIiorate _{U T C} @ 08:42, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd suggest that this RfA, while it will quite possibly be SNOW-worthy in time, hasn't reached that point yet. While I agree that the drama-potential is far too high, I think allowing some more discussion first harms nobody. While we may feel it doesn't have "a snowball's chance in hell of passing" at the time I write this there haven't been enough votes to demonstrate that. ~ mazca ^{t | c} 08:54, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
"You may be able to prolong your life RfA, but it's not like you can escape your its inevitable death, is it?"— Jack Krauser, 2005 ----KojiDude ^(C) 14:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
It's the POINTYNESS I oppose.75.53.105.213 (talk) 18:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Snowy or not, the guy was just pointing out the obvious fact that the core RfA voting community takes things too seriously. I think closing a deliberate protest expressing a legitimate issue with a recognized problem by a user who is technically and mentally capable of handling the mop makes us look a little like we're hosting the Olympics or something. Hiberniantears (talk) 20:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

He was abusing the system to point that flaw out. Talk pages are here for a reason.--KojiDude ^(C) 22:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
The fact that anyone thinks it is abuse demonstrates that his point was accurate. Hiberniantears (talk) 02:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I definitely wouldn't label it abuse - a waste of people's time in the end, but it started off as just non-blue linked pointy RfA, masquerading as an experiment. Then it became clear that it really was, in fact, a sincere experiment, but doomed to failure because it was made public from the beginning. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 02:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

What?

I would like to seek opinions on whether to use {{NOINDEX}} on all RfA pages. This could be achieved through one edit - adding {{#ifeq: {{BASEPAGENAME}} | Requests for adminship | {{NOINDEX}} | }} to {{user}} will result in all RfA's and their talk pages being noindexed.

Thoughts? Daniel (talk) 02:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

What's the potential benefit? Is RFA pages being searchable in Google really a problem? –xeno (talk) 02:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
{{user}} is used on a lot of pages other than RFA, maybe just bot-add it to all RFA pages? MBisanz ^talk 02:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Xenocidic: The fact that many Wikimedians have used their real names and then been accused of various stuff is a problem, in my opinion.
MBisanz: Please read my proposed code, it would only affect RfA pages. Daniel (talk) 02:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
You know very well I can't read code to save my life, in that case it sounds alright. MBisanz ^talk 02:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I know a couple of good standing Wikipedians that have been affected in real life by google indexing. If there's a simple way to remove it, then I fully support it - there's very few reasons why someone should be affected in RL by their actions on WP. Ryan Postlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 03:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be much easier to just edit the robots.txt file to exclude all pages in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/ range, that is what is done with AFD pages. - Icewedge (talk) 03:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately that's editable only by our system administrators. Daniel (talk) 03:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with this proposal. I have often wanted to find things on wikipedia (in the wikipedia namespace) and found google a far superior tool than anything else. Adding no-index to anything that might conceivably hurt someone is over kill. If there is a RfA which had someone real name AND there were negative things said, AND the user doesn't want it to show up in google, then we can deal with it. For example he can simply blank the page with the message "blanked for privacy reason; feel free to review the history". (Bot don't index the history). Jon513 (talk) 03:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
"conceivably hurt someone"? There's evidence that pages have hurt people, and it strikes me as irresponsible to wait for a page to hurt someone before doing something about it. That would be like waiting for the subject to complain before we could remove BLP violations. Daniel (talk) 03:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, no reason to wait for someone to get hurt to take action. Making searches more convenient for someone isn't a good enough reason to risk real life consequences. RxS (talk) 03:46, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

How about users just not publish their personal information at RFA? - Icewedge (talk) 03:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
The warning about not registering with ones real name was only added recently. Many probably don't realise how poisonous RfA can be, and the effect that having your real name in a page title is. Daniel (talk) 04:38, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Would it be possible to include the NOINDEX only if the nominee wants it included? Reyk _YO! 04:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they could use {{NOINDEX}} themselves. Advantages are no collateral damage; disadvantages are that people need to find out about this solution themselves and understand what it does, and then add it themselves. Daniel (talk) 04:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
So why not include a warning about the potential dangers in the RfA documentation? Reyk _YO! 04:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Because i) warnings are futile (see the part about not passing if you have less than X edits? never seems to work) and ii) the problem is slowly being fixed, and noting it like that would serve as an invitation for such behaviour, while this is a fix for the past. Daniel (talk) 04:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
It sounds like a good idea to me. I say do it. SQL^{Query me!} 04:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I say just NOINDEX the RfA at the user's request. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 04:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I concur with Avraham and Daniel. 1) No casual reader or job employer needs to stumble across something metapedian like an RfA; 2) It can be a real privacy issue; 3) Humans are more important than finding some archived discussion in the bowels of the project-space. That being said, we probably should ask the sysadmins to no-index all RfAs by means of robots.txt if this proposal should pass. —Animum (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I did not get the request correctly here. Why just RFA? =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Agreed - is there any reason for any non-content pages to be indexable by search engines? George The Dragon (talk) 08:38, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
There's been a discussion at the mailing list a few times. You might want to try taking it to WP:VPP. Here isn't the place for it. Cheers. lifebaka++ 11:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Ryan P, and we should apply it to RfA. I disagree with using it for all non-content pages, as it's sometimes extremely useful to be able to search all kinds of project pages for (eg) user interaction. Besides, discussing the broader issue is inappropriate here. Let's decide whether we want the specific instance of RfA pages excluded. If there's consensus, take the broader issue elsewhere (probably VP) leaving a link here. If there's not, I doubt there'd be consensus on the broader issue anyway, but it still might be worth posting at VP. --Dweller (talk) 11:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree. All non-content pages, and just as soon as we can get a better internal search engine. — CharlotteWebb 14:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea of using the template, it will get all RFAs post-2006. But the pre-2005/6 RFAs didn't use this template, would it be a good idea to use a bot/AWB here? MBisanz ^talk 14:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Thinking more on this, could we create a secondary template {{RFA NOINDEX}} so we could control the RFA-space with 1 template, even if we need to add it to some pages on its own? MBisanz ^talk 15:04, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
If there truly is a consensus and a need to do this, why not take up Icewedge's suggestion above? If the devs need to do it, then a bugzilla can be submitted. –xeno (talk) 15:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• People should really not need to be warned that using their real name on the Internet could lead to unintended consequences. –xeno (talk) 14:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I also agree with the placement. RfA is a strictly internal process to the project and I can think of no good reason why it needs to be indexed by external search engines. It may be obvious, but I see no reason to discourage people from using their real names if they are making an informed decision by having been warned about the potential consequences. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me | Review me} 15:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• I concur that we should add noindex. We should err on the side of protecting people. While google-searching wiki is useful, its usefulness is not sufficient enough to allow the potential side effects of having people's livelihood, privacy, or peace of mind adversely effected. -- Avi (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Well said, Avraham. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 15:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

• While I agree with the sentiment, I don't see how this is really that effective. Someone's real name can be exposed anywhere, not just an RfA; mine is certainly floating around, but it didn't even get mentioned in my RfA (or, for that matter, subsequent RfBs). This strikes me as a problem looking for a solution solution looking for a problem; the problem, however, is so seeped in emotion that everyone is jumping to agree with it. I just don't see how it's applicable; if an RfA candidate doesn't want their real name used in their RfA, then gee, perhaps they shouldn't mention it...
  As an aside, I do wonder how many "outed" admins had their identities tracked down specifically because of their RfA. That would be the true determination of how helpful this would be. EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  • I get your point, but I'm a little perplexed by your edit summary. I fail to see how taking precautions (and with very few drawbacks) to prevent harm to one's indentity is paranoid. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 16:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I consider several on-wiki things, such as fear of being exposed and WP:FEED, to be grounded in paranoia. Is the threat of real-life exposure real? Yes. Is it a threat that can affect our administrators? Yes. Is it something that is habitually happening in the RfA realm? No. Seeing problems in areas where there aren't any isn't particularly helpful, and I would consider it paranoia. EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
      • I see. You might have a point there. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 17:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  • EVula, did you happen to mean "a solution looking for a problem"? I'm going to assume you did, as that would make your argument much more clear. Useight (talk) 16:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Er, yeah. Sorry, I wrote that just as I was heading out the door for work; fixed. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
  • EVula, I believe the absolute number of individuals "outed due to RfA" is irrelevant; one is too many. This is a proactive measure whose benefit outweighs its cost. What do we lose? The ability to google RfA's to find a particular statement or statements? Where would that be more valuable than even the small chance of hurting someone, their career, their privacy, their family, or their good name? -- Avi (talk) 17:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
    • If they used their real name as their Wikipedia username, then didn't they out themselves? Those who have used their real name are (or should be) well-aware of the potential consequences. The Internet is no private affair. –xeno (talk) 17:29, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Xeno, so they have made an error; why should we be involved in compounding it for little expected return? -- Avi (talk) 17:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
        • So manually noindex any RFA for real-name'ish users. –xeno (talk) 17:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
    • When talking about limiting a function that lots of people can take advantage of, I'd say that the actual benefit of a course of action is very relevant. Your statement just makes me feel that much better about saying that this entire matter is seeped in emotion. I don't want anyone's life ruined either (well... maybe a couple), but I'm also unconvinced that removing RfAs from Google's index will protect our identities. EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
• Ladies, Gents you are utterly missing the fundamental point, which is that Google and Wikipedia are not actually related. If Google want to index us they can - tags or no tags. Google's bots ignore no_follow tags because Google (as a public company designed to make profit) choose to at the moment. If they decide otherwise then we can't control it (well we can, but not through measures in line with our goal). End of discussion. We don't control thrid parties. Simple. Gee...... let's archive this. Pedro :  Chat  Is grieving 19:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Section break

My question fails to be answered. What makes the RFA pages so special for noninclusion? =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm reading it as a problem for accounts using a living person's real name, as an RFA on those accounts might include what amounts to specific criticism of a living person, which could be problematic for that living person. If my name is Bill Formattest, and my rfa included criticisms of my editing on the pedophilia article, for example, a potential employer might dig that up on a google search for my real name - which would cause harm to me (and, incidentally, might have a chilling effect on the editing of controversial subjects). I'm unclear as to why courtesy blanking would be insufficient for this purpose, though. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 18:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I'd reverse Nichalp's question. What makes them so special for inclusion? WP is only indexed so heavily by Google because of reasons outside of WP's control (perception of WP relevance to a search engine query). Internal workings are not relevant to our audience (the readership). Google, as a third party, can index or not index as they prefer. Assuming that WP editors are of the opinion we'd prefer they don't index our internal workings then we include the tags. Given that our internal debates are nothing to do with our audience (again, the readership) then we may as well "request" Google not to index. Zero benefit to the actual goal of Wikipedia (writing an encyclopedia) is served by Google indexing non ENC pages. If we can prevent it then that's good. If we can't then so what. Pedro :  Chat  Is grieving 19:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I must respectfully disagree, Pedro. As we all know, the Wikipedia search engine is currently abysmal. Items of trivial interest appear on Wikipedia's search page, but a search at site:en.wikipedia.org at Google yields superior results. It would certainly be of relevance to us, the people serving to build an encyclopedia. Furthermore, I fail to see what a nonindex can do that a courtesy blank can't. A scenario like Ultraexactzz's Bill Formattest is certainly plausible, but a nonindex still renders the scandalous RFA fully visible and open to exploitation. I also disagree with your statement that our internal workings are not relevant to our audience. Whether it be an FA star or a Wikiproject template, our inner workings, debates, and decisions are ultimately linked to the encyclopedia. Our readership has a right to know what happens "behind the scenes," because it will almost always affect what goes on the encyclopedia and what does not. bibliomaniac15 20:14, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Bibliomaniac15 - please see my above (in the main thread). The fundamental point is that we do not control Google. They index what they want, and no_index tags are at their discretion not ours as to having any value. This thread is irrelevant as we cannot dictate what a commerical company does. Their current policy can change and I doubt very much that ours will change as rapidly as theirs, and indeed our policy is totally irrelevant to what Google wish to do unless we bury the whole site. Pedro :  Chat  Is grieving 20:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Further - regarding Our readership has a right to know.. - Yes you're right. However they key thing is, of course, that they don't actaully care. They want WP to be a resource. I couldn't give a damn if my dictionary is printed on recycled paper, made in China and bound in Taiwan. Nor do I care about the name of the editor who wrote the definition of the word "Cheese". I just want it spelt right. Pedro :  Chat  Is grieving 20:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Very well said! Agreed. Most readers don't care, they are using Wikipedia as a point of reference.Lazulilasher (talk) 02:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought I was the paranoid one. To me, No Indexing all RfA's is impractical and a solution for a problem that, frankly, isn't big enough to deserve something of this scale. How many RfA's come through, per month, that reveal personal information/hold intense negative commentary about an editor to the point where a no-index is needed? Barely any. Come on, man. If an RfA gets out of hand, noindex it. Why do it widespread?--KojiDude ^(C) 01:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

To answer your question, Koji (who, like me, chooses to hide their real identiy), the answer is one.) AS in one user. There is no negative to adding NOINDEX, but there is the potential positive for adding NOINDEX to rfa. The fact that a situation hasn't happened yet (even if it has, I could dig backwards if requested) doesn't mean we shouldn't be proactive. If it protects even one, then it is worth it. Support this, mostly per Pedro's sound logic. Keeper ǀ 76 01:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
For once, Keeper is absolutely right. Like it or not, we do attract nutjobs – as some of you will be aware, at least one person has gone to jail for stalking someone they took a dislike to on-wiki – and if doing this does no harm and potentially stops a single stalker, I can't see what the fuss is. – iridescent
Damn you, Keeper, and your clever convincing-ness. I cave.--KojiDude ^(C) 01:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
As regards the "it will involve work" bit, that's the least of the problems; it wouldn't even take coding, just a matter of minutes to knock up an AWB bot to do them in one go. – iridescent 01:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Hey! Whaddya mean "for once" Iridescent???? Give me a diff where I ain't right!!! (oh god, please don't reply to this.... The diffs where I'm completely inept, if not just insanely wrong, far outweigh my momentary lapse into genius...Keeper ǀ 76 01:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
The negative is that you are reducing the usefulness of google. Prodego ^talk 01:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Wiki is not, and should not, be concerned about the "usefulness" of google. Keeper ǀ 76 01:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I am not worried about google's usefulness, I am worried about my ability to search for things on wikipedia with google. site:en.wikipedia style. Prodego ^talk 03:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
With all the ways Succesful and Unsuccesful RfA's are organized here on Wikipedia, it'd be pretty easy to find a particular RfA if you wanted to. I think common sense would say to use Wikipedia as a primary reference point when looking for an RfA.--KojiDude ^(C) 01:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out why only the RFA pages is a problem. The comments above are only talking about google, but aren't there several other sites that archive wikipedia on the regular basis? I tried to search for my id on google, and interestingly enough, a search result threw an old user page (four year old page, one of my earliest) of mine on it. While Google might religiously follow robots.txt, there is no compulsion for other sites that mirror wikipedia to do so. So, its not just the RFA pages that might be caught up, but also user/user talk, wikipedia, and portal namespaces that are archived. The second point I wish to mention is that to request for adminship, a person must have a minimum 3-6 months experience (that is the unofficial limit at present). I'm sure by that time he/she would be aware of the issues that might occur by using their real name on wikipedia. If privacy concerns are still an issue, try WP:CHU; we do not deny those requests. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

• I don't see why we should do this, except in special cases. Wikipedia's internal workings are not secret. I use Google to search Wikipedia all the time, including internal pages. --Apoc2400 (talk) 11:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

• I don't have any major objection to this, really. My search method for RFAs is usually to type in "Wiki:Requests for adminship/Username" or Special:PrefixIndex the user's name, so google doesn't bother me much. I'm under the impression, however, that we courtesy blank things very specifically to prevent search engines from snagging some of the more heated drama on the site, and I am unclear how this method would be different from that. HEY, could we add this code to the courtesy blanking template and take care of everything at once? UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 12:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth pointing out that practically no change can come to this project because any proactive proposal for anything will be rejected as "no consensus" over trivial things. The proposal is about RFA pages. Why not other pages? Who cares. The proposal is about RFA pages, and maybe other pages can be discussed later, and elsewhere. If you want to search for someone's RFA, it's an extremely easy page to find. If you need google to find an RFA, there are bigger issues you need to be dealing with. This proposal is a good one because people do use their real names. Sometimes in their user names, other times it is just mentioned in the process. Then consider the monumental stupidity some people show in RFAs with their baseless accusations, character attacks and other such related hate spewage. There is no reason whatsoever that these pages should be indexed by google. If you can't find the page without google, like I said above, you have bigger issues. And as far as other engines indexing it: one problem at a time. Jennavecia ^(Talk) 15:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the point is that people need Google to find a specific RFA. People may want to use Google to search for content in an-RFA-of-which-they-don't-know-the-name. Probably due to the abysmal internal search engine employed here. –xeno (talk) 15:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
If you have a fragment of a name, a text search (CTRL-F on most browsers) on the Successful and Unsuccessful RFA lists would work well. As these are sorted by date, finding that one RFA 3 months ago would be simple as well. For an RFA where someone made a really good argument, I'd recommend checking their contributions in the Wikipedia space, also with text search. Not saying google isn't superior to these, but they are alternatives that would work with this function enabled. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 18:16, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Second section break

I just can't believe that this simple topic and simple request has two section breaks. Good grief. Keeper ǀ 76 18:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Keeper76, and welcome to WT:RFA! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. – iridescent 18:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
heh.  :-)_ (that little line below my symbolic mouth is me very much wishing I had a cigarette right now...) Keeper ǀ 76 18:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

• I have been considering adding a question for RfAs, particularly for those who don't use identifiable names, along the lines of: Admins sometimes become the subjects of off-wiki harassment - are you willing to have your identity revealed and discussed? Folks that are signing up for adminship need to have reasonably thick skins. Having the contents of their RfA appear in Google is nothing compared to what they may face if their RfA succeeds. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Having "reasonably thick skins" is fine. What does that have to do with having "reasonable privacy expectations?" If I signed up with my real name, that's my own fault really, but that doesn't mean we just say "too bad for you, you're an admin now, and should have thicker skin." Keeper ǀ 76 18:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Actually, I've seen almost that exact phrase written on ANI in response to complaints abot off-wiki harassment. Rather than offering admins-to-be a scant shred of covering to protect their privacy, we should do more to warn them that they are signing up for potential harassment and that "noindex" can't be counted on to protect them. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

If there's any present admins who are adminning under their real name they can go ahead and tag their RFA with noindex if they so please. In fact, if anyone can recall someone who's stood for RFA under their real name, and contentious issues have been raised, tag away. I still don't understand why we should take away someone's ability to effectively search Wikipedia (yes, even the meta parts) because of some hypothetical problem. –xeno (talk) 19:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Third section break

Um, RFA's have been blocked from search engines since September 2007, as it said in the Signpost. This Google search demonstrates that quite nicely. Graham87 04:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Wow. Now this is what I call inefficiency! - Icewedge (talk) 04:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes. I just tried to search for an RfA, only for my search to end fruitlessly. A whole thread with three section breaks all for this. Wow. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 04:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Had this been channeled into article writing we could have like 5 DYK's or something..... - Icewedge (talk) 04:34, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Just as penance for this I am going to go write a DYK right now, I suggest 4 other people go do the same ;) - Icewedge (talk) 04:35, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Hah. I'm going to go and get my GA promoted to FA now. —Mizu onna sango15^Hello! 04:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, lol. Well, this is just the way we roll here. --Apoc2400 (talk) 07:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Pure class.... :) Pedro :  Chat  07:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)