You should not use Taliban flag on this list until the government is officially recognised by UN.
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Taliban are a terrorist group forced to take the power in Afghanistan where the people will never accept it except a particular tribe who are called Pashtuns (Taliban are all Pashtun). Zaki Frahmand 15 September 2021, 10:04 UTC
The United States is 0.2 square kilometers larger than China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BookReader9876 (talk • contribs) 14:52, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Please Change Yemen Area to 527,968km2 (203,850 sq mi), as its not listed correctly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.231.157.168 (talk)
Somebody did a lot of work on Note 4 at few years back, so I don't want to breeze right in and remove everything. However, now both sources cited (CIA and Encyclopedia Britannica) state that the United States has a total area of 9,833,517 to 9,834,633 sq km while China has a total area of 9,596,960 to 9,572,900 sq km.
https://www.britannica.com/facts/United-States
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/united-states/
https://www.britannica.com/facts/China
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/china/ Ridge Runner (talk) 19:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
I noticed that since I last visited this article, the parts of the UK have been added separately, which makes no sense at all. While places like Jersey or Bermuda could be added since they are not part of the UK and operate outside of it, even if they are not independent countries, it makes sense to add them (the same goes for Hong Kong and Macau since they operate outside of mainland China and have their own internationally recognized special status), this does not apply to the constituent parts of the UK. In the case of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, however, none of these are countries in the international sense, but are constituent countries like the federal states in the US. They are all part of the United Kingdom and not overseas territories or dependencies. The word country in the local sense of the United Kingdom does not correspond to the internationally recognized term referring to independent nations or autonomous regions outside the full rule of a sovereign state. Arianoleejones (talk) 22:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
What do you think are the top 5 disputes in how the table should be set up are?? The order of China and the United States appears to be one of them. Georgia guy (talk) 12:18, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
It appears that the numbering (which is automatically generated?) falls apart at entry 11. DR Congo (#11) is obviously larger than Greenland, and Saudi Arabia (#12) is clearly smaller than Greenland. Thus, Greenland does not get its own number because it is/isn't part of Denmark (#130). Paulehoffman (talk) 23:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
concerning "Note 1" about Canada: this note is currently ambiguous because it appears several times in different contexts in the article, but was only written with one of them in mind. it reads:
it should be changed to something like:
the very first appearance of Note 1 on the page is in the right sidebar near the top and this shows an example of how the current note doesn't make sense because Canada is already on that list moved down. 2603:8001:D3F0:87E0:0:0:0:1DF6 (talk) 18:43, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
With the new standard line length being shorter, the new and old ways of formatting the article come off as entirely different documents. The old version with wide lines is a list, while the 'Notes' column' makes the new version read more like a listicle - not all in a bad way. My point is that this situation seems a little unstable. Eventually somebody will get annoyed that the default view is not a pure list, and want the Notes column excised. And they'd have good cause. I'm not sure what the solution is. The notes column is good content, but I'm not sure what options there are to display it in a good way by default. Does anyone have any ideas? Wizmut (talk) 06:08, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
While i was looking at the list i couldn't see Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Mayotte and Réunion. I know that they are part of France but they also should be listed seperately i think. Mehmetberkgung (talk) 16:05, 9 April 2023 (UTC) ...just as if they were their own countries?? Georgia guy (talk) 18:01, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Doesn't Western Sahara have a flag? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Sahrawi_Arab_Democratic_Republic.svg is the file 73.170.116.64 (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
For note 21, some more info could be "Largest Shi'a majority country on Earth." and also "Largest Iranian-speaking country" since Iran is the largest country that speaks an Iranian language. Stuffmaster1000 (talk) 04:03, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Should a pie chart be on this page?
A long-standing one was recently removed for being unsourced, and although I don't think that's a very good reason (WP:CALC), I'm not jumping to revert it, because there's already two other figures that summarize top country area, and they're both maps. And that's not counting the very list-like bar charts that occur right after the list. Really, we could just use one figure - the standard world map, colored by country size, that we already have.
I looked around at other pages that have list of countries by area, and only List of European countries by area has a pie chart. Oddly most pages have no figure at all. Africa has a map, but there's no color-coding.
One problem with pie charts can be seen at the Europe page: where do you stop? After just a few entries, the chart is now hard to read, and yet it hasn't even described the data very well. A better alternative might be a treemap. But what's even better than a treemap? A map.
Please discuss here if you love or hate pie charts in this context. Wizmut (talk) 01:55, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
The table claims Barbados has more land area than total area (431 sq km compared to 430 sq km), which is impossible. Even if the numbers were accidentally switched around, the table also claims those two numbers are equivalent to 170 sq mi and 166 sq mi respectively, which do not match up (170 sq mi is about equal to 440 sq km). Finally, the table also claims barbados has 0 sq km of water area, so that suggests the two numbers shouldn't be different at all. TurkeyCookTime (talk) 18:42, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
I went over all the uses of templates and made sure everything was exact (fixed uneven spacing and use of commas).
I then also took a bigger step of making a new template for use on this page and others: Template:km2 mi2. This makes the markup a lot easier to edit and proofread, and reduced the file size by about 25% without removing any content.
I will fix the rounding problems this created for the smallest ten entries on the table, but I also found that those entries had a lot of varying answers when doubling checking them. For some the answer differs by as much as 100%, so 1 sig fig is probably appropriate.
If anything is broken, feel free to revert, but also discuss here! Wizmut (talk) 18:32, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
The two bar charts at the bottom of the page use data from 2005 (reportedly). But luckily, they don't show their results with the kind of precision on the table. And they don't have the clarity of the map. If nobody can find a unique purpose they serve, they can probably be removed. Wizmut (talk) 19:02, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
I don't know how to fix it, but clicking on some column headers either fails to sort correctly, or does nothing at all. Clicking on the Rank header works but the results are wrong because too many places have a hyphen as the rank. 伟思礼 (talk) 19:34, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
Svalbard and Jan Mayen are considered distinct from Norway, but Norway disagrees. To them and their law, Svalbard is an integral part of the country, just like Alaska or Corsica.
Although I like inclusion and think the "mainland" distinction is neat, it really doesn't seem to fit into the criteria for this list. This is the same category as large but integral islands or exclaves of the US, France, Italy, Australia, China, Russia not to mention Japan, Indonesia, New Zealand and probably many more.
A similar discussion has recently occurred on the population density list talk page which favored exclusion, but points in favor of including Svalbard were made in previous discussion on this page. Wizmut (talk) 10:46, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
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can you please change the link from France to Metropolitan France in the table section France (metropolitan)? thank you 143.44.165.26 (talk) 11:04, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
why the 5 french overseas regions aren't included? .caiify3623. (talk) 01:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
San Andrés and its smaller Colombian neighbors in the Caribbean should be listed. Isn't their relationship to Colombia similar to the relationship of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands to the United States? Pascalulu88 (talk) 14:57, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
The figures (currently) cited for the numbered countries add to (km²);
The US is cited as
Better values are
Note: There are 45 discrepancies where Total does not equal Land plus Water.
There are 66 territories listed. I’ve checked the major ones: if the page says it’s not included in the "owner" country, then I’ve added them. They are Antarctica (14,200,000), Greenland (2,166,086), Taiwan (36,193), UK territories (18,874), US territories (10,681).
I've used the values cited in this article: the last 2 differ (a bit) from British Overseas Territories, Crown Dependencies and List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_area. The water area for US territories is the major difference. Svalbard is not added. I assume Hong Kong is included in China. I assume Halaib Triangle (20,580 km²), Bir Tawil (2,060 km²), Ilemi Triangle (1,000 km²), have been included in one of the "numbered countries".
Adjusting for US and the 5 territories above it makes;
MBG02 (talk) 17:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Firstly, Uganda is 241,038 sq km, not 241,550 sq km. An overwhelming majority of websites that talk about Uganda as the subject only say it is 241,038 sq km.
Also, 197,100 + 43,938 ≠ 241,550 so this is incorrect
Secondly, what's up with Eritrea's area? It says that it is 125,000 sq km when there is absolutely no evidence of the country being THAT big! Sources only say it is 117,600 sq km.
Also, the area of Bulgaria on this article isn't matching what it says on Bulgaria, and it's saying that it is 110,993.6 sq km (rounds up to 110,994 sq km), not 111,002 sq km.
And thanks to the fact that the government of Denmark has recalculated the country in 2017 when he noticed it was actually 42,943 sq km, this should be corrected from 43,094 sq km to 42,943 sq km, which Wikipedia exactly says this. (and reliable source for Denmark's recent recalculation: https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/miljoe-og-energi/areal/arealopgoerelser) 2601:280:5000:D2F0:2FA2:675D:BBAE:64CC (talk) 18:54, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
@Just a random geography fan I wanted to thank you for your attention towards this article, with the caveat that any figures which deviate from the default source (the UN) need to have a citation each to back them up, which can be placed in the last column (the notes column). This holds even when copying from other articles, because those articles may have mistakes or errors.
I would also say that it's good to be bold and improve things, but if you genuinely think that your edits may require some extra explanation or may be in some way contentious, it's no problem to drop a line on this page or any talk page. The majority of us do not bite and are happy to help :)
Also wanted to say more specifically that your recent edit to add French Guiana may be reverted for the technical reason that it is not considered separate from France by their government or by the ISO 3166-1 standard. It is in some sense more similar to Hawaii or Aland than Gibraltar or Greenland. It may seem arbitrary, but using an outside standard has proved more resilient than holding a referendum on each region for each list. If you look at the discussion archives on this page and the pages for other country lists, you can see that it doesn't stop discussion entirely, but it does help. Wizmut (talk) 06:18, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
This has gone back and forth a few times, but I don't believe there's ever been a discussion about it. For territories without a flag (or with a disputed status) should we use
To me, flag.svg indicates that there is a flag that is either unknown or under dispute, while noflag (or the neither option) indicates that there is no flag (no claims, and no government of their own). --Lasunncty (talk) 04:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
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Please add Template:Citation needed to the tops of the "Land in km² (mi²)" and "Water in km² (mi²)" columns.
The top of the page says that all data come from [2] unless otherwise noted, but this document gives just one figure for area (comparison with the chart shows that it's what appears in the "Total in km² (mi²)" column), so the land and water columns are not sourced. 123.51.107.94 (talk) 00:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
I noticed that this article has a serious problem with double counting the areas of disputed territories. Most notably Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh (South Tibet) involving India, Pakistan, and China. The Indian area figure (3,287,263 sq km) includes Pakistani-controlled Kashmir (Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir), Chinese-controlled Kashmir (Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram Tract), and Arunachal Pradesh (controlled by India, claimed by China as South Tibet). On the other hand, the Pakistani area figure (881,913 sq km) includes Pakistani-controlled Kashmir only and the Chinese area figure (9,596,961 sq km) does not include Arunachal Pradesh (South Tibet) and any part of Kashmir, including Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram Tract which are actually under its control. This implies two things:
1. The area of Pakistani-controlled Kashmir (Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir) has been double counted.
2. The sources used in this article, which published these figures, have sided with India by including all disputed areas, including those under de facto control of Pakistan and China, as part of India, which have completely ignored the claims made by Pakistan and China. By using their figures, we have violated the WP:NPOV policy because we have also sided with India in an international dispute involving three different countries.
In order to comply with the WP:NPOV policy, using Western Sahara and the Spratly Islands as precedents, I reckon we should list Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh (South Tibet) as separate regions and deduct their respective areas from each of those claimant countries. By including them as separate entries could help shed light on the ongoing complexities and sensitivities surrounding their political status.
Furthermore, by listing these regions separately, it could serve as a reminder of the differing claims and perspectives held by India, Pakistan, and China on these regions. It would highlight the need for diplomatic efforts and peaceful resolutions to address such disputes.
After making these deductions, the new table would look like this:
3 or 4 | China | 9,596,961 sq km |
7 | India | 2,965,175 sq km |
35 | Pakistan | 796,067 sq km |
– | Kashmir | 232,088 sq km |
– | Arunachal Pradesh (South Tibet) | 90,000 sq km |
Alternatively, we could also include the area de facto controlled by each country in each country's respective land area figure, then the table would look like this:
3 or 4 | China | 9,641,816 sq km |
7 | India | 3,156,562 sq km |
33 | Pakistan | 881,913 sq km |
Which option should we choose?
P.S. I believe that other countries involved in territorial disputes would have some similar problems. For example, the Halaib Triangle (20,580 sq km) claimed by Egypt and the Sudan may have been included in both countries' area figures. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:B903:331B:3DE3:E06A (talk) 08:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
What is the master source for this data? According to the intro, totals are from the UN Demographic Year Book 2022 and land and water figures are taken from the Food and Agriculture Organization.
Yet from what I can see, the data is a mishmash of sources, all from different years. Including the UN, CIA, national statistical agencies, online encyclopedia and the BBC. There may be others too.
Surely if a comparative table is to mean anything, it ought to be from the same source and from the same year. Dgp4004 (talk) 12:06, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
The US Census gives detailed figures on how it adds up its total area:[6]. This article generally excludes coastal and territorial water within the table itself, with the notes column showing alternative definitions, if any. But the US entry is the biggest exception in that it includes 477,000 km2 of non-internal water. It really doesn't need to be this way; we could simply sum the land figure and inland water figure to make the US's entry comparable to all of the others.
It would look something like this:
Country / dependency | Total in km2 (mi2) | Land in km2 (mi2) | Water in km2 (mi2) | % water | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3/4 | United States | 9,369,417 (3,617,551) | 9,147,593 (3,531,904) | 221,824 (85,647) | 2.4 |
The entry would remain in the same place and retain the extra note about US-China ranking.
Wizmut (talk) 22:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
The total area of the United States is not 9,369,417. This is not from any reputable source such as The United Nations, Britannica, World Atlas, CIA Fact-book, World Bank etc I believe this may be some sort of page vandalism. The area 9,525,067 is from Encyclopedia Brittanica. This totals includes just rivers and the United States Great Lake portion. All major sources such as The United Nations, Britannica, World Atlas, CIA Fact-book, World Bank etc include the Great Lakes as internal waters for the United States. Canada total area includes all of its lakes, Rivers, and its Great Lake portion. So how can you deduct the total from the United States. Lake Baikal is included in Russia total area and the African Great Lakes are also included in their respective countries total area. This seems to be some sort of vandalism or Anti-American misinformation campaign. Please stop spreading misinformation. Thank you. ZeusDragon2024 (talk) 04:26, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
This edit was made by a new editor who appears to have been introducing deliberate factual errors into geographical articles. I can't undo the edit due to later editing. Pinging User:Wizmut, who has made several recent edits to the page. Ed [talk] [OMT] 18:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
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The true surface of Uganda is not correct. If we consider World Bank collection of development indicators it has a surface of 241 550 sq km. So you should modify its position above Ghana, so Uganda will become 81th. 82.77.193.119 (talk) 20:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Could the description be updated to clarify that ice and as frozen water is not included in the figures? 144.6.37.169 (talk) 02:51, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Denmark is shown with all territories separately, according to Wikipedia, Denmark (Denmark proper) is a constituent country of the Kingdom of Denmark, which is a unitary sovereign state, just like the United Kingdom, so this constitutional monarchy should be assigned a number rank, not Denmark proper ThePurgatori (talk) 03:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
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